ENTREVISTA A ADNAN PACHACHI,

 en “The Washington Post” del 25.01.2004

'These Values Are Universal'

   Adnan Pachachi, 80, is currently serving as president of the Iraqi Governing Council, having returned to his country after 35 years in exile. The following is excerpted from a session last week with reporters and editors of The Post:

Q: What about the basic law for Iraq? He [Shiite Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani] seems to have a problem with it.

A: Well, we informed him that the basic law will be based on, you know -- we have a very good bill of rights in the basic law ensuring equality before the law, equality between men and women. We acknowledge that Islam is the official religion of the state, but it is one of the sources of legislation, which means there are other sources, too, and also it ensures the freedom of religion for all, for everyone. It's quite a progressive law. I mean, we haven't had anything like it for a long time.

Do you think setting off car bombs and shooting down helicopters, how is that likely to evolve?

Well, I think, you know, these acts of violence have decreased to some extent, and they are now lashing out at mostly Iraqi civilian targets. I think it's partly out of desperation, and partly in order to destabilize the country and to prevent it from going back to normal.

I think after there is full sovereignty and an Iraqi government that manages the affairs of the country really free from any foreign pressure or interference, I think the situation will improve. Of course, the economic situation will have a direct influence. But the economy is improving.

Who is responsible for the attacks?

Well, it's a combination of, obviously, the remnants of Saddam supporters and also infiltrators from outside. You know, you have the al Qaeda, for example. . . . They say they are in a state of permanent war against the United States, and Iraq is chosen as a convenient and suitable battlefield. But they will hit Americans wherever they can.

And all the suicide bombers, I would say 99 percent, if not 100 percent, come from outside. This method of resistance, if you like to call it that, by blowing yourself up -- suicide -- is unknown in Iraq. It's against the culture of Iraqis. It's very easy to come to Iraq, and they are coming from all the neighbors, from Iran, from Syria, from other places, too. But I believe that sooner or later they'll realize that this is a no-win situation. The Americans are not going to withdraw from Iraq.

How would you describe public attitudes toward the United States?

Well, there is a certain ambivalence, really, because people don't like foreign occupation, this is obvious. And also, you know, the presence of a large number of American troops has created friction every now and then -- the checkpoints and the frequent going into houses and the arrests and so on and so forth have caused certain bitterness and anger.

But on the other hand, a lot of people realize that there is no other way of combating terrorism and there was no other way of getting rid of Saddam. So, you know, you have to balance the two things.

Do you expect to see Saddam Hussein tried in Iraq?

Yes. We have set up a special tribunal to try cases of war crimes and crimes against humanity. I think it's going to be a fair trial and an open trial with due process and all the guarantees to the accused: lawyers, the right of appeal, transparency. . . . Certainly it's quite different from the kind of trials Saddam held in Iraq when the accused faced the charges and within half an hour he is before a firing squad.

We are trying to do something in Iraq which is quite new for the region and that's why people are rather doubtful that we can succeed, that it is somehow against the whole culture -- which is, of course, nonsense. I don't think that democracy and supremacy of law are the possession of only the Western countries, the Western people, no.

People forget that France was ruled by absolute monarchs for almost a thousand years, so you can't say the French and the Europeans and the Americans are somehow fit for democracy, but the people of our region are not.

You see, these values are universal. Values of freedom, democracy, of human rights, equality before the law, you know, all these things belong to the whole world.

Is there a danger that some guarantees, some basic freedoms, will be granted to Iraqis who in large numbers don't want them yet, specifically regarding women and regarding religion and so forth?

Well, of course, we have religious fanatics in Iraq, as I imagine you have here, too. But the thing that we shouldn't forget is that the majority of Iraqis are secular in outlook. We hear a great deal about ayatollahs and about religious figures and clerics and so on, but really they represent a minority of Iraqis. Of course, they are better organized and they are able to get people out in the streets. But the majority of Iraqis -- I would call them the silent majority -- in fact are secular in outlook. What divides Iraqis is not the accident of their birth to a certain religion and certain sect but their political differences.

What has it been like for you personally coming back?

Well, my wife keeps on telling me I should have my head examined. But when I first went to Baghdad after 35 years' absence, you know, I had a mixed feeling. One of elation and happiness to see the country after all these years and one of deep sadness to see what had happened to this country, which after all is blessed with so many good things -- it has all the natural resources, fertile land, a long history, a lot of water and oil obviously. And a hard-working, intelligent, I think, and well-educated population.

In 1978 the per capita [income] in Iraq was equal to that of Spain and Portugal, and now it is about one-sixth of Portugal and Spain. Iraq is really a very, very sad story. And I felt that if I could be of any help, if I could contribute something, whatever it is . . . . I'm nearing the end of my life, obviously, so if I can do something in the few years left, at least I will have done something that would make me happy and would feel that life can be useful sometimes.